Comments
- Serious Sam IS fun. Especially co-op (LAN).
I have that hope that the new Doom (and Fallout 4) will have good native VR, but,.. Bethesda. They're pricks, sometimes. Maybe Vive support and scew Occulus.
A brainless, fast FPS action shooter in VR would be quite a thing. So would be a FPS RPG (I.e. Skyrim).0 - Serious Sam IS fun. Especially co-op (LAN).
I have that hope that the new Doom (and Fallout 4) will have good native VR, but,.. Bethesda. They're pricks, sometimes. Maybe Vive support and scew Occulus.
A brainless, fast FPS action shooter in VR would be quite a thing. So would be a FPS RPG (I.e. Skyrim).
Fast-paced FPS games are a bad fit for VR. A slow-paced FPP *might* be ok, or an FPS that doesn't have a lot of sideways/backward movement. It's been proven that those types of movements in VR can really screw with your vestibular system, causing sim sickness.Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
From watching the video on YouTube, I see all kinds of 'bad practices'. A few that happen in the first couple minutes:Fast-paced FPS games are a bad fit for VR. A slow-paced FPP *might* be ok, or an FPS that doesn't have a lot of sideways/backward movement. It's been proven that those types of movements in VR can really screw with your vestibular system, causing sim sickness.
- Camera getting wrenched away from user control when using sledge hammer.
- Blood splattering onto camera lenses (too close to eyes).
- Unnatural motion (directional and velocity)
Obviously, it was not made for VR..
I am curious what breaking the best VR practices can do to people who are not prone to sim sickness. They might not experience sim sickness, but can it do actual harm?
For instance, if there are people who want to play a fast paced 'Unreal Tournament' type of game; and they are not prone to sim sickness.. should they avoid these experiences due to longer term health implications? Or is it simply a matter of 'if you can stomach it, it is safe'?- SS BFE is my 'go to' 3dvision game on the projector. Crank up SSAA and its good for hours of fragging, but I just can't get it dialed in on DK2 with vorpx. I'll keep trying but the resolution of dk2 really makes it a challenge to aim at distant targets. Up close its great until they hit you and the graphics start freaking out. Bummer, cuz I'd love to play this in VR!
- Fast paced shooters will be great for VR, but not until we'll get much improved latency (DK2 is far too high for this genre, as well as 75 or even 90Hz) and appropriate controller (and by that I don't mean a simple solution. It might require more than just a hand controller, I don't know. Hard to predict.)
But I'm afraid that instead of putting effort to make it happen, industry will say 'it's not good fit for VR' and that will be it.
It happened with twitch shooters after console/LCD era came. Gamepad, 60Hz and full persistence are the things that make them crippled. Even a single one of those factors renders a twitch shooter crippled. With VR it will be even more complicated matter. But I do think it's a great fit for VR. Just not the VR we'll get in the next few years, for the reasons well known. In order to make VR compatible with fast paced shooters, we'd need a big company focused on core gaming and there's not a single one as of yet. Surely not Oculus, not Samsung, not Microsoft, not Sony (at least not until the PS4's successor) and not Valve (unless they change their strategy significantly, which I don't see happening in 2016).
BTW. Don't call them 'brainless shooters'. Actually brain is very active during a dense action in SS-like games. Brain doesn't use the same parts as it does while a person plays a strategy game, but it requires a lot of concentration and even a little planning, but to be aware of that, you need to be equipped with:
- 120Hz low persistence display
- PC capable of maintaning stable 120+fps with v-sync
- good mouse
- good, huge mouse pad for low sensitivity setting for the mouse
- a few hours of recovering from bad habbits learned during using LCD 60Hz crapware.
For example when I make a quick turn, I shoot one guy while noting the position of other enemies, I plan my next move, I turn to shoot the guy behing me, and then I need to decide which enemy should be next and if I should move and in what direction. What weapon to use, etc.
When action is really fast, my brain is almost steaming from all the activity. I wouldn't call it brainless. It doesn't resemble working as much as puzzle solving/strategy/tactical games, but it still would light up quite nicely when the brain was analyzed in real-time. Recently we (humanity) achieved such hardware and it's possible to see what actually happens in our brains. The parts that are working hard, are represented by light on the machine's screen. I'd expect a Christmass tree rather that North Korea satelite photo made during a night timeNot an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore.
Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash.
Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for. - Believe me when I tell you I wish I was wrong about this. I've been an FPS addict since Wolfenstein. It's my favorite type of gaming and, to brag a bit, I've become really good at it.
So when I fired up HL2 (optimized for VR) and started playing only to get a stomach churning experience after 20 minutes, I was devastated. It felt like a lifelong friend betrayed me. I researched sim sickness and its triggers and, unfortunately the way a body moves in an FPS is NOT the way the human body normally moves.
What I learned is that you can have the biggest, baddest computer running an FPS set at optimal VR requirements and still have a very bad time because your brain will revolt against you, not the game, not the PC, not the headset, your brain can SOMETIMES be the culprit. In cases like these, it's best for game developers to err on the side of caution and just stay away from developing FPS VR games entirely.
BUT THERE'S HOPE!
With room scale tracking, we don't have the disconnect between our brains and our movements. A nausea free experience can happen with a standing FPS in a room scaled environment.
edited for clarityNot a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight. - I'm with you on that. FPS games make me want to puke.
For me it's all about driving / flying and whatever it is you do in space when you move around.DK1 | DK2
'The question isn't who is going to let me but rather who is going to stop me' - Agreed - the issue with FPS in VR is simply not one that any amount of graphical or processing upgrades is likely to solve.
Your visual system sees everything to indicate that you are moving, your vestibular system is expecting to feel the movement, but does not = error your body doesn't like.
(I have read one theory that this is an evolutionary response to such an inconsistency of the two systems that would have been likely to be a result of having consumed a toxic substance hence the immediate body response is to vomit. This sounds feasible and reinforces the probability that this is a biological restrction and not one that hardware improvements can compensate for.)
Developers seem to have accepted this - rather than wasting time developing for experiences that aren't going to feel pleasant, they are correctly focussing on the experiences that play to the strengths of the new form factor.0 - So when I fired up HL2 (optimized for VR) and started playing only to get a stomach churning experience after 20 minutes, I was devastated. It felt like a lifelong friend betrayed me. I researched sim sickness and its triggers and, unfortunately the way a body moves in an FPS is NOT the way the human body normally moves.
Well, I played the entire game on the DK1. Sure I got sick in the beginning. But after a while the problems were gone. People give up SO easily imho.
Playing FPS in VR takes training, you can't walk the marathon without training either.
Walking where you are looking is the biggest problem if you ask me. It is totally unnatural. - So when I fired up HL2 (optimized for VR) and started playing only to get a stomach churning experience after 20 minutes, I was devastated. It felt like a lifelong friend betrayed me. I researched sim sickness and its triggers and, unfortunately the way a body moves in an FPS is NOT the way the human body normally moves.
Well, I played the entire game on the DK1. Sure I got sick in the beginning. But after a while the problems were gone. People give up SO easily imho.
Playing FPS in VR takes training, you can't walk the marathon without training either.
Walking where you are looking is the biggest problem if you ask me. It is totally unnatural.
Totally agrre, I had slight nausea issues when i first played FPSs (Half-Life and Alien Isolation), but I was careful though, I only did small sessions in be beggining and started increasing the time until it was completly gone for me. So much that i played ShootMania Storm (a quake like shooter) with the DK2 and didn't have problems. - So when I fired up HL2 (optimized for VR) and started playing only to get a stomach churning experience after 20 minutes, I was devastated. It felt like a lifelong friend betrayed me. I researched sim sickness and its triggers and, unfortunately the way a body moves in an FPS is NOT the way the human body normally moves.
Well, I played the entire game on the DK1. Sure I got sick in the beginning. But after a while the problems were gone. People give up SO easily imho.
Playing FPS in VR takes training, you can't walk the marathon without training either.
Walking where you are looking is the biggest problem if you ask me. It is totally unnatural.
If the majority of users have to train to push themselves beyond their nausea threshold in order to enjoy VR, then VR is doomed all over again. Nausea was the primary VR killer in the 90's and devs aren't eager to go down that road again.
I've come to the sad realization that the current style fast paced FPS games will probably never see native VR support. That said, I do have hopes that a DIFFERENT type of FPS will evolve. Slower paced, maybe standing experiences. It's all just experimental right now.
I do know one thing, I'm not willing to look back. I no longer want to play an old game that's been poorly ported to VR. Show me something new or GTFO. VorpX and other third party port mods are doing nothing but distracting attention away from the goal of realizing fully developed, natively supported VR games for 2016.Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight. - So when I fired up HL2 (optimized for VR) and started playing only to get a stomach churning experience after 20 minutes, I was devastated. It felt like a lifelong friend betrayed me. I researched sim sickness and its triggers and, unfortunately the way a body moves in an FPS is NOT the way the human body normally moves.
Well, I played the entire game on the DK1. Sure I got sick in the beginning. But after a while the problems were gone. People give up SO easily imho.
Playing FPS in VR takes training, you can't walk the marathon without training either.
Walking where you are looking is the biggest problem if you ask me. It is totally unnatural.
If the majority of users have to train to push themselves beyond their nausea threshold in order to enjoy VR, then VR is doomed all over again. Nausea was the primary VR killer in the 90's and devs aren't eager to go down that road again.
I've come to the sad realization that the current style fast paced FPS games will probably never see native VR support. That said, I do have hopes that a DIFFERENT type of FPS will evolve. Slower paced, maybe standing experiences. It's all just experimental right now.
I do know one thing, I'm not willing to look back. I no longer want to play an old game that's been poorly ported to VR. Show me something new or GTFO. VorpX and other third party port mods are doing nothing but distracting attention away from the goal of realizing fully developed, natively supported VR games for 2016.
I played Omga Agent. I read that it can make some people sick. But for me it is one of the most amazing experiences. If people give up, they miss out on a lot imho. - From what I've seen in the in-game footage, Omega Agent is technically a cockpit game and not as prone to nausea as a walk around FPS. The jetpack cage shown on screen acts as a simplified cockpit, thereby telling your brain that your lower body isn't being used for locomotion. Doing this bypasses the physical/virtual disconnect that usually happens in an FPS. From what I understand, this is essential to easing nausea in a VR environment.Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
- Agreed - the issue with FPS in VR is simply not one that any amount of graphical or processing upgrades is likely to solve.
Your visual system sees everything to indicate that you are moving, your vestibular system is expecting to feel the movement, but does not = error your body doesn't like.
(I have read one theory that this is an evolutionary response to such an inconsistency of the two systems that would have been likely to be a result of having consumed a toxic substance hence the immediate body response is to vomit. This sounds feasible and reinforces the probability that this is a biological restrction and not one that hardware improvements can compensate for.)
Developers seem to have accepted this - rather than wasting time developing for experiences that aren't going to feel pleasant, they are correctly focussing on the experiences that play to the strengths of the new form factor.
Well said.Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight. - In real life I tried to copy the default behaviour of the control scheme of most VR FP games.
It wasn't that easy ;-).
What I did was: I walked into the direction I was looking at without changing the position of my torso or the rest of my body. Believe me, it looks stupid. Don't try this in a crowded place, people will think you are nuts .
Anyways, I got sick, just like in VR.
I can't believe devs still keep inmplementing this movement scheme, that was basicly designed for 2d gaming
They should implement tank controls instead, which is how you move in real life. With CV1 accurate positional tracking and headtracking this should be possible without drifting. (drifting makes you sick as well). - In real life I tried to copy the default behaviour of the control scheme of most VR FP games.
It wasn't that easy ;-).
What I did was: I walked into the direction I was looking at without changing the position of my torso or the rest of my body. Believe me, it looks stupid. Don't try this in a crowded place, people will think you are nuts .
Anyways, I got sick, just like in VR.
I can't believe devs still keep inmplementing this movement scheme, that was basicly designed for 2d gaming
They should implement tank controls instead, which is how you move in real life. With CV1 accurate positional tracking and headtracking this should be possible without drifting. (drifting makes you sick as well).
Interesting experiment, LOL! Keep in mind that the game we are talking about, Serious Sam BFE, came out in 2011 and is far from being a native VR game. - In real life I tried to copy the default behaviour of the control scheme of most VR FP games.
It wasn't that easy ;-).
What I did was: I walked into the direction I was looking at without changing the position of my torso or the rest of my body. Believe me, it looks stupid. Don't try this in a crowded place, people will think you are nuts .
Anyways, I got sick, just like in VR.
I can't believe devs still keep inmplementing this movement scheme, that was basicly designed for 2d gaming
They should implement tank controls instead, which is how you move in real life. With CV1 accurate positional tracking and headtracking this should be possible without drifting. (drifting makes you sick as well).
Interesting experiment, LOL! Keep in mind that the game we are talking about, Serious Sam BFE, came out in 2011 and is far from being a native VR game.
True, but I wasn't talking about Serious Sam, but Firts Person games in general (like Dreadhalls e.g.)
Serious Sam | |
---|---|
Genre(s) | First-person shooter |
Developer(s) |
|
Publisher(s) |
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Platform(s) | Microsoft Windows, OS X, Linux, Palm OS, Xbox, Xbox 360, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, GameCube, Game Boy Advance, Android, iOS |
First release | Serious Sam: The First Encounter 21 March 2001 |
Latest release | Serious Sam VR: The Last Hope 20 September 2017 |
Serious Sam is a video game series created and developed by Croteam. The series started on Microsoft Windows and has been released on a number of different platforms, including the Xbox, Xbox 360, Palm OS, Game Boy Advance, PlayStation 2 and GameCube.
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Direct spin-offs of the first title in the Serious Sam series were created for PlayStation 2, GameCube and Game Boy Advance by Climax Solent and for Palm OS by InterActive Vision. All of these spin-offs were published by Global Star Software. The fan-made game Serious Sam Classics: Revolution was developed by online community Alligator Pit and released onto Steam Early Access in 2014.
The series follows the adventures of protagonist Sam 'Serious' Stone and his fight against the forces of the notorious extraterrestrial overlord Mental who seeks to destroy humanity.
- 1Games
- 1.2Spin-offs
Games[edit]
2001 | Serious Sam: The First Encounter |
2002 | Serious Sam: The Second Encounter |
2003 | |
2004 | Serious Sam: Next Encounter |
Serious Sam Advance | |
2005 | Serious Sam 2 |
2006 | |
2007 | |
2008 | |
2009 | Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter |
2010 | Serious Sam HD: The Second Encounter |
2011 | Serious Sam 3: BFE |
Serious Sam Double D | |
Serious Sam Kamikaze Attack! | |
Serious Sam: The Random Encounter | |
2012 | Serious Sam: The Greek Encounter |
2013 | Serious Sam Double D XXL |
2014 | Serious Sam Classics: Revolution |
2015 | |
2016 | |
2017 | Serious Sam VR: The First Encounter |
Serious Sam VR: The Second Encounter | |
Serious Sam VR: The Last Hope | |
Serious Sam 3 VR: BFE | |
Serious Sam's Bogus Detour | |
2018 | I Hate Running Backwards |
Tormental | |
2019 | Serious Sam 4: Planet Badass |
Serious Sam 3 Vr Bfe
Main entries[edit]
- Serious Sam: The First Encounter (2001)
- Serious Sam: The Second Encounter (2002)
- Serious Sam 2 (2005)
- Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter (2009)
- Serious Sam HD: The Second Encounter (2010)
- Serious Sam 3: BFE (2011)
- Serious Sam 4: Planet Badass (2019)[1]
Spin-offs[edit]
- Serious Sam: Next Encounter (2004)
- Serious Sam Advance (2004)
- Serious Sam VR: The First Encounter (2017)
- Serious Sam VR: The Second Encounter (2017)
- Serious Sam VR: The Last Hope (2017)
- Serious Sam 3 VR: BFE (2017)
Indie series[edit]
- Serious Sam Double D (2011)
- Serious Sam: Kamikaze Attack! (2011)
- Serious Sam: The Random Encounter (2011)
- Serious Sam: The Greek Encounter (2012)
- Serious Sam Double D XXL (2013)
- Serious Sam Classics: Revolution (2014, Steam Early Access)
- Serious Sam's Bogus Detour (2017)
- I Hate Running Backwards (2018)
- Serious Sam: Tormental (2019)
Development[edit]
Croteam created their own engine for use in both Serious Sam: The First Encounter and Serious Sam: The Second Encounter. At the time Croteam was making Serious Sam, licensing other engines was costly (upwards of US$1 million), so they made their own from scratch, following the feature set of the first Doom engine, which simulated 3D spaces in 2D, and did not include up or down targeting. As they were creating their own, both Duke Nukem 3D (which added up-and-down freelook) and Quake (a fully 3D rendered environment) were released, requiring Croteam to incorporate these features into their engine for their game to be competitive. Development was further complication when the first 3D accelerators were released, forcing Croteam to develop for hardware rendering over software.[2] Recognizing they needed to bring something new to what other games were pushing at that time, Croteam decided that they would make their Serious Engine support extremely large environments, with virtual view distances of over a kilometer, physics support, and capable of rendering up to a hundred enemies on screen at a time, and do this on the processing power of what current low-end computers using Pentium One CPUs could handle.[2] The team devised ways of doing object path caching so that they only had to perform collision detection with environmental features every few seconds rather than every cycle. Collision detection was also sped up by approximating the environment with spheres rather than boxes. This also enabled them to have multidirection gravity which was used for some of the game's secret areas.[2]
Serious Engine 1 is available as open-source software.[3] A more powerful iteration of the Serious Engine was developed for use in Serious Sam 2 and is known as Serious Engine 2. It supports many features of modern GPUs such as pixel and vertex shaders, HDR, bloom and parallax mapping. Serious Engine 3 was used in Serious Sam HD: The First Encounter and Serious Sam HD: The Second Encounter. It includes detailed shading, and enemies are remodeled to look more realistic. This engine is also being developed to harness the full capacity of HDR and High Definition mapping. An updated version, Serious Engine 3.5, is used in Serious Sam 3.
Serious Sam is voiced by John J. Dick.
After the release of both HD remakes of the original Serious Sam episodes, the new publisher, Devolver Digital, acquired both classic encounters in 2010 and Serious Sam 2 in 2011.
References[edit]
- ^https://www.shacknews.com/article/105764/serious-sam-4-interview-first-encounters-of-the-badass-kind
- ^ abc'War Stories: Serious Sam almost didn't happen—until crates saved the day'. Ars Technica. 3 October 2018. Retrieved 3 October 2018.
- ^'Serious Sam's Serious Engine source code released'. Croteam. Retrieved 12 March 2016.